MIND CONTROL SERIES
Ryerson CKLN Radio in Toronto: Producer Wayne Morris interviews Dr. Colin Ross.
Second in a Series of Broadcasts aired Sunday April 6, 1997 on CKLN-FM 88.l in
Toronto. 

Part 2 of transcript

C.R.  A big chunk was just the manufacture and supply of drugs, chemicals
and biological weapons. Another chunk was actually using the drugs in
experiments on people to try and create amnesia, to try and create altered
states of consciousness, to test the drugs for interrogation purposes, and
also to test them for detecting hypnotically programmed agents. There was a
team called The Artichoke Team, which was created as part of Artichoke. It
would use different and mind control, sensory deprivation techniques to try
and figure out if somebody had been hypnotically programmed by another
intelligence agency. In other words they were trying to pick up these
hypnotically controlled double agents that had been created by the KGB, or
whoever.

Then about one quarter of these research projects were just odds and ends of
all different psychology, sociology experiments. A man named R. Gordon Watson
who wrote a book called "Soma: The Divine Mushroom of Immortality" which is
about the toadstool that you always see in fairtytales (a red stalk, and
white cap with red flecks on it) ... that's Amenita Muscaria which is a
mushroom that was used by circumpolar shamans in northern Canada, Alaska and
Sibera for centuries. So R. Gordon Watson has called this mushroom "Soma",
had an MKULTRA
grant through the J.P. Morgan Company to go on an expedition to Northern
Mexico to try and find hallucinogenic mushrooms. 

Just to give you an example of how all these things tie into our culture at
large, G.H. Estabrook organized three or four major symposia at Colgate
College and he invited all kinds of people to them ... including Martin
Orne. In two of the different sessions organized by Estabrook, Alduous
Huxley came and talked. Alduous Huxley used hallucinogens himself, and wrote
the novel, Brave New World, a science fiction book in which the government
controls the people by giving them a mind control drug called, Soma. All
these things are very strangely connected to each other.  Not as part of a
huge conspiracy, but because all these people knew each other, talked to
each other, influenced each other.  

Four of the MKULTRA sub-projects were on children and three of the
investigators did not know it was CIA money, and one did. The research
projects themselves were pretty bland, and not very alarming. So the purpose
there, as stated by the CIA, was not really the research as such. MKULTRA
sub-project 103
was at a children's international summer camp in Maine. Children from all
kinds of different countries would come and spend weeks through the summer.
The purpose of the research was to study how children communicate and solve
problems when they don't share a common language. The purpose of the CIA
funding, which was secret, was that they wanted to establish contact with a
whole bunch of foreign national children, who were as young as eleven,
because they might be of potential intelligence use in the future. In other
words, they were just interested in getting an "in" so they could make a
list of these people and start figuring out who might be a good person to
recruit to find out who might be a good CIA person in the future. They were
doing this to children.

W.M.  You mentioned that multiple personalities are much easier to create in
children, and if the military and CIA's goals were to use multiple
personalities for intelligence purposes, is there evidence of
experimentation on children?

C.R.  Not experimentation to create multiple personality in children
directly, but there are experiments on children that you would think were
unbelievable, impossible, could never have happened ... and if you heard
someone telling you about them, you would think the person was making it up 
or was deluded. But actually I have the publications which
describe the research. One example is that G.H. Estabrooks himself did
experiments with hypnosis on children at two different orphanages in
northern New York State. So he did create multiple personalities
experimentally, he did correspond with J. Edgar Hoover about using hypnosis and 
drugs on juvenile offenders, and he did actually do some kind of research at
these
two orphanages, but I don't know the exact nature of the experiments, except
that it involved hypnosis in some form.

If you think this is too much to believe ... there is no way the CIA and the 
military would do experiments to create multiple personality in children ...
it's just too off the wall, too bizarre ... it would be helpful to know what
actually is documented, what actually was done. One of the most revered
psychiatrists, who had her obituary in the American Journal of Psychiatry
recently, is a woman named Loretta Bender. She was a child psychiatrist.
Interview any child psychiatrist around the country, and they would speak
highly of her contribution to child psychiatry. In a publication I have on
file, as a photocopy, which you can get at a medical school library, it is
not hard to get ... she described giving LSD in dosages of 150 micrograms,
which is a big street level dose for a kid, to children aged 5-10, for days,
weeks, and sometimes months in a row. She also described giving
hallucinogenic doses of psylocybin, which is the main compound in magic
mushrooms, to kids as young as five years of age.  So this network of
doctors whose drugs were supplied either by the CIA or the military, or drug
companies funded by them, gave massive doses of LSD and other hallucinogens
to kids 5, 7, 8 years old.  They would keep them on full acid trips up to
months in a row.

W.M.  And this was documented in the journals at the time?

C.R.  Yes, it was published in the regular medical journals. You can just go
to the library and photocopy them.

W.M.  And there was no outcry in the profession against this?
This sounds like torture.

C.R.  No.  This was just regarded as psychiatrists doing research and trying
to help kids. That's the things that is most amazing about this. You don't
have to have a conspiracy theory, and really conspiracy theories are
interesting but kind of beside the point I think. The thing that is most
amazing is that all this kind of stuff is just straightforward, everyday,
regular kind of activity by psychiatrists and psychologists ... it gets
published, it gets presented at conferences ... nobody comments on it or
gets outraged about it ... nobody does anything about it. 

Another type of research that is fully documented, if you know the
references they can be found in any medical library, there is a whole body
of research on brain electrode implants. The main people who were doing that
were Joly West who was trying to set up a program in Los Angeles to do that,
which was approved by Ronald Reagan, but then got shot down by public
protest. The main work was done at Tulane University in New Orleans by
Robert Heath, at Yale by Jose Delgado and at Harvard by a team that included
Frank Irvine and William Sweet. These are the major universities in the
western world.  What they basically did was they would stick very fine
electrodes into specific areas or centres in  a human's brain, often up to
15, 20, 25 electrodes at one time, 
and then they would stimulate the electrodes electrically through the wires,
and that would cause the electrode to discharge which would cause that part
of the brain to fire ... Jose Delgado at Yale made a technical advance when
he invented a remote transmitter box, that in the 1960's had a range of up
to 100 feet. He could push a button on the box that would transmit a signal
to the electrode which would cause a firing in the brain, and that part of
the brain would get activated. 

In the books and papers that are published, Delgado describes also doing
this in cats and monkeys. He refers to these monkeys as "Mechanical Toys"
because he could control their body movements, control their behaviour. An
example of what he was doing with monkeys is that he had a group of monkeys,
who were all in the same species, living all in the same cage, and they have
a dominant hierarchy (a boss monkey who runs the whole show, and then they
have a whole bunch of submissive males and females). In the normal set-up,
the boss monkey has half the cage to himself, and all the other monkeys get
to use the other half. If they try to come and use his space, then he gets
mad, angry or beats them up or threatens them ... this is just the normal
social structure of these monkeys. What he did then was to implant an
electrode in the brain of the boss monkey and when he pushed a certain
button on this transmitter box, the boss monkey became completely
submissive.  The other monkeys started to figure this out, and started
getting bold, and come in to his part of the cage and rough him up and not
pay any attention to him. The next step in the experiments was to put a
lever in the cage where the other monkeys could get their hands on it, and
when they pressed the lever it then transmitted a signal to the electrode in
the boss monkey's brain which would leave him passive. The other monkeys
learned this, and started practicing mind control on the boss monkey by
pressing the lever and make him have these seizures in that part of his
brain that made him passive.  They learned how to control the boss monkey
... the article shows a picture of the other monkeys lying all around the
cage, and not paying any attention to the boss monkey.

What he did then, was to do this to human beings, including children. He
describes an eleven year old boy in whose brain he put electrodes. When he
pressed the right button on the box, the boy would start talking about maybe
being a girl, wanting to marry a male therapist.  So they were using brain
electrode implants to modify the identity, world view and behaviour of
children as young as eleven.  

Robert Heath, at Tulane University, describes one case in several different
publications ... the guy is referred to as subject B-19,
aged 18 or 20. He was homosexual, and they viewed homosexuality as a medical
disease which needed to be treated, so they put brain electrodes in this
young man, one of which went into the area of the brain called the septum,
which is an area of one of the pleasure centres in the brain. They would
push the button, cause the electrode to fire, and he would not have a full
orgasm but would be three-quarters of the way toward orgasm, would feel
really really good as a result of the button being pushed. They studied his
response, and thought they would get him to watch heterosexual pornographic
films while they were pushing the button. They were trying to switch him
over to trying to be interested in women. Then they did two further things.
They set him up with a little box of his own, where he could push the button
himself, and they have a chart over a three hour period showing how many
times he pushed the button himself.  In one three hour period, he got up to
pushing the button 1500 times
to give himself an artificial neuro-orgasm. Then the final step they did in
the research was to bring in a twenty year old prostitute to the medical
school, and had her have sex with him, and while they were having sex, they
recorded the brain electrode output, because it was a two-way communication
system. They could signal to the young man's brain, or they could just use
the electrodes to monitor the brain activity that was occurring naturally.
They took brain electrode activity recordings from deep inside his brain
while he was having an orgasm with this female prostitute. Then they report
that over an eleven month period as a follow-up, he was mostly heterosexual,
with a few "relapses". This is just the stuff that really went on.

A guy at Harvard, who was part of the Harvard brain electrode team, was
William Sweet. He was testifying at the recent hearings by the committee set
up by Bill Clinton to look at all the radiation experiments. The radiation
experiments were all intertwined and overlap with all this mind control
stuff. William Sweet described injecting plutonium into people at Harvard as
part of the Atomic Energy Commission, CIA and military research and he
claimed that all the subjects there gave him informed consent. But one of
the subjects named, HP-12,
they referred to their experimental subjects as Human Products with the HP
designation, then they go to a series of numbers ... arrived at one of the
emergency departments at one of the hospitals in Boston which was part of
the Harvard system, unconscious and unidentified. He was injected with
plutonium, obviously without giving consent, and he died without regaining 
consciousness and without being identified. That didn't quite fit with the
idea that
everybody gave informed consent. Recently the Clinton government approved a
settlement of 4.8 million dollars for just 12 of these people who were
subjects in experiments, and there are probably hundreds and hundreds of them.

W.M.  This was the outcome of the Presidential hearing on radiation experiments?

C.R.  Right, and what I think, and what I am going to start lobbying for,
should be another hearing on the mind control side of things ...

W.M.  And the mind control were introduced at the end of the hearings on
radiation ... can you talk about that? What evidence was introduced, and
what the response was by the U.S. government?

C.R.  It was a typical kind of Presidential Commission, which was like the 
various commissions of inquiry that go on in Canada, where they receive all
kinds of mail and correspondence, and then go all around the country having
hearings where people can testify. They had hearings in Washington and a
number of people testified ... there was the documented material that I am
talking about, and then the memories of individual patients ... the stuff
that they claim has gone on, which isn't documented. The things that I know
for sure went on, and that includes in Canada, were the use of
hallucinogens, implantation of these brain electrodes, massive doses of
electroshock ... as in ECT treatment where you are made to have a seizure,
and electroshock to different parts of your body as part of behaviour
modification.  Sensory deprivation experiments where people were kept in
different
chambers for long periods of time until they started hallucinating. Ewen
Cameron is the best known CIA contractor. He did psychic driving where he
would make people listen to tape loops for literally hours and hours per
day, with repeated messages, trying to modify their way of thinking and
behaviour. So all of these different elements have been used and totally
documented in medical school library-type journals.

One of the most bizarre experiments was done at the University of Minnesota
by a man named Amadeo Morrazzi, who had an Air Force grant for LSD research.
Previously he was one of the administrative/managerial guys at Edgeware
Arsenal. Besides just giving people LSD and so on, he made use of what is
known as the Ames Leaf Room. A guy named Ames developed this room, funded by
the Office of Naval Research which was heavily involved in mind control
research. The Ames Leaf Room has several different forms. It can either be a
room that is built out of plywood, with all different kinds of angles or
this particular room was cubic, you would fit inside the room ... one side
would have no wall at all, it was just open and that's the side you would be
facing away from, and you would be sitting inside, so you couldn't see
anything except the walls 
and then the entire room was lined with leaves which were glued to all the
walls. So there you are in an environment where you can't exactly see where
the corners are because of all these leaves. When you are in the Ames Leaf
Room, you would put on special glasses called Aniseikonic Lenses which
distort all of the angles so the ceiling would be coming down at you, the
floor would be slanting at a weird angle, one wall would be coming in at
you, one would be going the other way. The leaves on one side of the room
would be all big and coming at you, and the leaves on the other side would
be kind of flat and receding, and all the different perspectives didn't fit
together properly.
The subject sitting in the Ames Leaf Room has a little control mechanism set
for a bar at the end of the room to try and set it to horizontal. It shows a
photograph of a person sitting there, and the bar is at a 40 degree angle.
He thinks it is horizontal. The extra twist was that while he had people
sitting in the Ames Leaf Room with these weird goggles on, he gave them LSD.
That's all done on Air Force contracts. This is all weird stuff.

W.M.  What, if any, has been the U.S. government's response, particularly to
the mind control experimentation testimony at the Presidential hearings?

C.R.  They just kind of acknowledged and really didn't comment, or do much
of anything with it.

W.M.  So nothing has been done to follow up?

C.R.  Nothing systematic that I know of.

W.M.  I just want to go back to when you were speaking of brain implants.
Have you or other therapists come across direct evidence of brain implants
in clients?

C.R.  Nothing really conclusive. There is a kind of conspiracy theory
literature that exists about that ... found on the internet, various
publications, showing x-rays, but it is kind of vague usually, and not
really absolutely documented. I don't think that's because it is not going
on, it's just that documentation hasn't been fished out yet. I haven't
myself, had a patient come in for treatment and have been able to document
there is an implant in this person's brain.

W.M.  So the documented evidence indicates that they are able to use
implants for remote purposes, and also to receive information from a
person's brain ... is that correct?

C.R.  Joly West, who was the expert witness for Patty Hearst, and was a CIA
and military contractor, and an expert on multiple personality and other
things ... he actually mentions multiple personality in his CIA proposal. He
tried to set up this UCLA violence centre that was going to be funded by
Ronald Reagan and Frank Irvine from the Harvard brain electrode implant team
was going to come.  One of the things that was going to be done at the UCLA
violence project and also at Vaccaville State Prison under a separate
administrative structure, but which got shut down by public protest, was
that they were going to implant brain electrodes in violent sex offenders,
and then they were going to two things. They were going to use the
electrodes as a kind of electronic bracelet inside the person's head ...
they were going to monitor the person's location
because of transmissions from the implanted electrodes, and once they had
been discharged from prison, they would know if he had gone outside of his
restricted area. Also they would be able to monitor the level of the
person's sexual arousal through the brain electrodes ... so if the guy was
outside his restricted area, and starting to get sexually aroused, what they
would do is then transmit a signal to him which would paralyze him. Just
make him go catatonic or stop in his tracks and not move. Then they would
notify the police who would go pick him up. There is a book called, Violence
in the Brain, by two of these Harvard brain electrode people, and they
discuss maybe using these kinds of electrodes for people who are rioting ...
like the Watts riots that were going on, and so on at that time.  There was
a whole scheme about how we were going to control "bad people" in the
population, people that we didn't like.

W.M.  This is their own literature and documentation that you are getting
this information from ...

C.R.  This is all completely published, objective, real, it exists.

W.M.  And does it go into detail about how the electronic delivery system
would function ... is it by satellite, by some kind of radio that would
receive and send signals?

C.R.  I don't know a whole lot about the technical side of it.